亚博：詹皇退役时将是史上第一? | 他和乔丹谁更强?

Zach Lowe:"Lebron will be the greatest player by the time he retires if he hasn 't already , at this moment he is neck and neck with Jordan as the greatest player ever. Once he posts 4 more monster years , statistically there will be no conversation" @32min

Lowe ："假如此刻他还不是同盟第一人的话,那末当勒布朗退役之时他必然是最伟年夜的球员,在最伟年夜球员方脸孔前他几近已和乔丹不相上下,一旦他再打出四个更禽兽的赛季,在数据方面他必然是毫无争议的史上最好."

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[–]Lakersshamrock8421 1320 points 4 days ago

The title of GOAT will ultimately be bestowed upon he whose version of "Space Jam" is superior.

湖人球迷："史上最好" 的头衔终究将归属权将属在两位在"空中年夜灌篮" 中的演技.

[–]NBANot_Me25 397 points 4 days ago

No way any new Space Jam touches the old one. Not a chance

不成能有任何续集比得上第一季空中年夜灌篮,所以勒布朗毫无机遇.

[–][UTA ] Donovan MitchellHydromorfiend 385 points 4 days ago

Nostalgia is a powerful thing

爵士球迷：怀旧永久是最强有力的工具.

[–]Lakersmodada 107 points 4 days ago

Hype too. There ’s a reason why toy story 3 has a better IMDb rating than toy story.

湖人球迷：炒作一样也是,这也是为啥玩具总带动3 在IMDB 上的得分要远高在玩具总带动1.

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[–]Twoweekswithpay 2032 points 4 days ago *

I was there for Jordan , and yes , we were spoiled by the narrative that one guy is all it takes to win a championship , when in reality , it was the mix of the best player , an unusually unselfish great #2 in Pippen , good mix of role players , and a head coach/coaching staff that just knew how to maximize the best out of all their players.

In this fashion , Steph Curry is having the career MJ had. But the league is covered in a more nuanced way now and more people watch players on a night-in , night-out basis to recognize the difference between great stats and great players.

For me , I did think 6-0 trumped everything but with Lebron , i ’ve Come to realize that it does matter who your teammates and coaches are. Lebron has never had a phil Jackson. Had Lebron joined the warriors instead Of Cleveland way back when after Miami , we ’d be talking about him as the greatest ever , due to his likely 7th title this year. But , he chose the hard way and won one for Cleveland.

Michael had a lot of things working for him , including being drafted into a major market from the start. The one area that is hard to quantify though that seemingly gives MJ the edge is that in the way Lebron seemingly had a psychological grip on the raptors , michael had that over the entire league during his 6 titles. That ’s something that really has only been seen a couple times since with Tiger Woods or Serena Williams , and those are individual sports.

The Bull ’s dominance , only when MJ was on the team , led to a false equivalency , however , between being "the best player" and "winning a championship." But , that ’s okay. I think Lebron wins a championship with the lakers and he ’ll be the first one to win 3 finals mvp ’s for 3 franchises. He ’ll be in the statistical top 5 all time in scoring and assists. And he ’ll have the distinction of the greatest of his generation.

We ’ll appreciate him much more after he ’s gone. We ’ll remember him as the guy who survived and thrived in the social media age without any major blips. And , he ’ll leave us all in a better place from a fan ’s perspective in knowing that in team sports , the best players give you the potential to win a championship , but to actually win it , it takes more than just "The Man."

我是从乔丹阿谁时辰看角逐过来的人,没错,我们现实上已被某种只要靠一小我的全数就可以博得总冠军的论调给宠坏了,但现实上乔丹夺冠也需要最好的球员,他需要一个百年难遇的不自私极品二当家皮蓬、好的脚色球员和一众领会球员而且能阐扬他们最年夜实力的锻练团队.

从某种方面来讲,斯蒂芬-库里此刻在走乔丹的职业生活生计,可是同盟此刻笼盖面愈来愈邃密,人们几近每晚都可以看球,从而他们也能够熟悉到好的数据和洽的球员之间的差距.

对我而言,此前我觉得总决赛六胜零负是乔丹压服性的数据,可是看到詹姆斯以后,我感觉这一样取决在你的锻练和你的队友,勒布朗从未有过菲儿-杰克逊如许的锻练,如果勒布朗在从迈阿密回来选择插手勇士而不是骑士,我们此刻城市会商他是否是最伟年夜的球员了,由于假如加盟了勇士他可能就会有7 个总冠军了,可是他选择了最艰巨的道路——为骑士赢下一座总冠军.

乔丹身旁的助力良多,他一最先就被芝加哥选中从而诞生就是年夜球市,不外乔丹有一个优势是詹姆斯所没法对比的,那就是勒布朗看起来只让猛龙有心理暗影,而乔丹在他六个冠军里几近把所有球队都打得自闭了,这类现象只有在伍兹和小威身上呈现过,可是这些都是小我活动了.

可是公牛的统治力,或说乔丹在的时辰公牛的统治力让人们构成了一种毛病的等式,那就是"最好的球员"="赢下总冠军" ,固然这也没啥好说的,我小我认为詹姆斯会在湖人赢下他第三支球队的总冠军和第三支球队的FMVP ,他在得分和助攻上城市进入汗青前五,他也会有这个时期第一人的头衔.

在詹姆斯退役以后,我们会更加他拍手,我们会记得这家伙在舆论媒体如斯刻薄的环境下仍然能如鱼得水,没有甚么年夜的污点.而且詹姆斯可以或许帮忙我们对篮球有更好的理解：他让我们大白在集体活动中,最好的球员会给你赢球的潜力,可是要想赢,史上最好一小我远远不敷.

[–]crowntheking 569 points 4 days ago

This is a really great comment..

The Steph curry comparison is interesting and even if he wins this year no one is going to be calling him the greatest of all time. His situation is a lot more similar to Jordan 's then LeBron 's ever has been

真的是很棒的评论.

斯蒂芬-库里和乔丹的对照真的有趣,即便他本年再次取得总冠军估量也没有人会认为他是史上第一人,但现实上相较在勒布朗,他和乔丹的际遇更加接近.

[–]WizardsMarmaladeFugitive 374 points 4 days ago

KD robbed us of peak Curry. He probably wouldn 't end up the greatest ever...but I sure as fuck wanted to see him try for it.

奇才球迷：杜兰特夺走了"巅峰库里" 的表示机遇,他可能真的成不了史上最好,可是我真的很想看看他能为这个方针支出年夜量尽力啊.

[–]Celticskilltasticfever 122 points 4 days ago

Not really , steph has MUCH more in terms of help/team than jordan ever did.

凯尔特人球迷：不太像,库里要比乔丹的助力多太多了.

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[–]peppermintpattymills 157 points 4 days ago

Displaying a Finals record as 6-0 is super misleading because it implies that 6-0 is better than 6-2. That 's what bugs me about saying Jordan never lost a Finals. He also didn 't make a Finals for the first like seven years of his career or whatever.

现实上总决赛六胜零负这个记实超等具有误导性,由于这暗示了6 胜0 负拿到总冠军要比6 胜2 负拿到总冠军强,可是最使我感觉强的是乔丹历来没输过总决赛,此前他历来没进过总决赛,在第六次拿到总冠军以后后面他也没进过总决赛了.

[–]76ersmatgopack 135 points 4 days ago

Agreed.

Playoff overall record: MJ: 119-60 (66.50%)

Lebron: 154-79 (66.10%)

Almost identical , with a larger volume for Lebron.

76 人球迷：

赞成

季后赛整体记实：乔丹119 胜60 负(66.50%)

詹姆斯：154 胜79 负(66.10%)

总得来讲勒布朗的样本数目还年夜一些.

[–][TOR ] Bruno CabocloXeibi 270 points 4 days ago

These younglings talking bout LeBron and Jordan...

smh back in my day Bob Cousy was the true GOAT , playing against true defenses and not this malarkey of the 80s , 90s , and 00s.

猛龙球迷：这些小年青仍是见风就是雨,每天会商勒布朗和乔丹谁才是最强……

我阿谁时辰鲍勃-库西才是神好么,他面临的是真实的戍守而且还没有80 年月、90 年月和00 年月那末市场化.

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[–][OKC ] Raymond FeltonDTttfu 497 points 4 days ago

Statistically definitely but not in accolades

雷霆球迷：在数据上必定会是史上第一,可是在声誉上必然不是.

[–][GSW ] Stephen Curryec20 267 points 4 days ago

I understood Zach to mean that the greater longevity of strong statistical seasons , combined with the accolades Lebron does have , would make him the GOAT.

So not necessarily that peak Lebron was better than peak Jordan , but that Lebron 's peaks combined with his longevity should make him the GOAT.

勇士球迷：我很理解Zach 说的话,他的意思是勒布朗有着久长、延续的壮大数据在加上他的声誉可能会帮忙他博得史上最好称号.

所以比力巅峰勒布朗和巅峰乔丹谁更强没成心义,可是勒布朗的巅峰和持久度应当能让他成为史上最好.

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[–][UTA ] Donovan MitchellKingCrumble 124 points 4 days ago

I don 't disagree with you - but I think this current Warriors team is probably more stacked than any team Jordan ever went up against.

Which is insane.

爵士球迷：我不是DISS 你——可是我感觉此刻的勇士可能要比乔丹那时匹敌的所有球队要强很多.

这才是最可骇的.

[–]danmaker99 234 points 4 days ago

Probably ? This Warriors team is more stacked than any team ever , including Jordans.

可能？这支勇士要比史上所有球队更可骇,包罗乔丹的公牛好么？

[–]CavaliersJjab430 89 points 4 days ago

How many rings do you think Jordan would have if Hakeem , Barkley , Miller , and Mutombo teamed up in the middle of his prime ?

骑士球迷：举个例子,假如昔时巅峰乔丹面临的是奥拉朱旺+巴克利+米勒+穆托姆博构成的球队他能拿几个冠军？

[–][DET ] Ben Wallacezm2485 94 points 4 days ago

Are you comparing Draymond to Barkley ?

活塞球迷：你这是把巴克利比作格林？

[–]WestVerySadAllTheTime 134 points 4 days ago

On the other hand how many rings do you think he ’d have if he teamed up with Stockton and Robinson

从另外一个方面来看,你感觉乔丹假如和斯托克顿和罗宾逊组合在一路他能拿几多个冠军呢？

[–][CHI ] Rajon Rondobluemagic124 160 points 4 days ago

Scottie Pippen is a HOF level talent in his own right

公牛球迷：斯科特-皮蓬着名人堂级此外实力啊.

[–]peppermintpattymills 98 points 4 days ago

The '94 Bulls won 55 games , Pippen averaged 22.0/8.7/5.6 with 2.9spg and they went seven games in the Eastern conference semis.

The '16 Cavs without LeBron probably wouldn 't win 40 games or make the playoffs. Yeah Kyrie and Love are good. No they aren 't that good.

别忘了94 年的公牛在没有乔丹的环境下赢了55 场,皮蓬场均22 分8.7 篮板5.6 助攻还2.9 次抢断,而且率领球队在东部半决赛和此外球队酣战七场哦.

16 年的骑士假如没有勒布朗可能赢不下40 场角逐,更别说打进季后赛了,欧文和乐福确切不错,可是他们没有皮蓬那末强啊.

来历：Reddit

编译：万事胜意