【键盘侠】老詹防守差非他之过

The narrative that Kobe and MJ went hard defensively on every single possession in their mid-late 30’s needs to stop because it just isn’t true.

那些关在科比和乔丹30多岁今后仍然每个回合都当真戍守的谈吐现实上可以竣事了，由于这底子不真实。

I’ve seen a lot of comments/posts lately criticizing Lebron lately claiming that Kobe and MJ literally never ever took a defensive possession off. And that is just a straight up lie. Kobe had not played consistent defense since 2008, and was a sieve by 2013. While MJ was still a great defender during his second 3 peat, and he made all-defensive teams during that stretch. However, Scottie almost always took the tougher Match up night to night, and MJ was also known to take possessions off to conserve energy. Don’t believe me? Just watch highlights of the 98 finals, you’ll hear the announcers mention a handful of times that MJ’s resting on defense in order to conserve energy for the end of games.

Here’s the thing, if you are a 34 year old wing player and have carried a superstar offensive load for a decade plus, and you’re going to keep carrying that offensive load, you’re not going to be able to play elite defense every single possession.

There is plenty of shit to criticize lebron for, but there is no need to lie about Kobe and MJ in order to do it.

我比来看到很多多少攻讦勒布朗-詹姆斯的谈吐，他们说科比和乔丹不会放过任何一个戍守回合。毫无疑问这就是个假话，科比自从2008年今后戍守就不太不变了，2013年更是戍守真个年夜缝隙。虽然乔丹在他第六个冠军的时辰照旧是好戍守球员，他那时也入选了最好戍守声势，可是皮蓬每晚都在对阵最难防的球员，乔丹有的时辰会在戍守端偷懒来积攒能量。你不相信我？看看98年总决赛的高光时刻吧，你可以听到讲解员屡次提到乔丹在戍守端歇息以便可以或许积攒能量来竣事角逐。

这就是工作的全进程，假如你此刻34岁而且需要十几年承当一支球队的超等巨星级别进攻重任时，你是不成能在戍守端连结一样强度的，你也不成能在每单个回合都打出精英级此外戍守。

良多人都找这个点去黑勒布朗，可是现实上没需要拉科比和乔丹出来做黑他的捏词。

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[–]watabadidea 632 points 1 day ago

If people are actually saying they "literally" never took a play off, they are obviously liars or idiots.

However, I think those people are the clear minority. Most people that I see are more of the opinion that Jordan and Kobe never looked so absolutley apathetic on defense for significant stretches similar to what they see (or perceive to see) from lebron.

假如他们仅从字面意义上解读，很较着他们就是骗子或傻瓜。

但是我感觉这仅仅是少部门人，年夜部门都感觉科比和乔丹最少不像勒布朗如许对戍守端这么冷酷。

[–][LAL] Rick Foxmelperz 208 points 22 hours ago

Yup. OP is just criticizing those absurd comments which deserved to not to be taken seriously.

湖人球迷：楼主只是在批评那些本不应认真的风趣评论。

[–]SunsBaconKnight 163 points 20 hours ago

He's attacking the extreme end of the other side of the spectrum to give credence to his argument. Tactic we see all too often nowadays.

太阳球迷：现实上他在进犯一些极端评论，而且为本身的进犯找一些论据，此刻这类策略我们见得挺多的。

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[–]Skzshr129 56 points 20 hours ago

It's disgusting and this thread should've been removed for that alone.

Jordan was 9 time All-Defense first team including '96, '97, and '98, in his mid/late thirties.

LeBron has made it 5 times and the last time he did it he was 28 years young in a fucking Heat jersey and hasn't been seen since.

现实上这个帖子应当被移出去的。

乔丹拿过就此最好一防，此中包罗了96/97/98三年，这三年他已三十年夜几了。

勒布朗进过五次最好一防，，可是上一次他进入最好一防还要追溯到他28岁的时辰，阿谁时辰他还穿戴热火的球衣呢，尔后没进过戍守声势了。

[–]HeatNumber333 1231 points 1 day ago

Every 17-year old on here saw MJ and Kobe every game they ever played man what's wrong with you.

热火球迷：此刻连17岁的小孩子都能说本身看过乔丹和科比的每场角逐了，兄弟你还能说甚么呢？

[–]HeatSmokingFrog 331 points 1 day ago*

Michael Jordan made the NBA All-Defensive First Team at 33, 34, and 35 years old though. I'm surprised people here are upvoting OP when you can do a simple Google search and see for yourself that Michael Jordan did in fact remain an elite defender throughout his mid 30s.

热火球迷：迈克尔-乔丹33,34,35岁的时辰可是NBA最好戍守一阵的，我很震动居然还赞成楼主的定见，你们简单的谷歌一下就知道乔丹在他三十岁中段的时辰照旧是精英级此外戍守者。

[–]Pistonsthrowaway_5256 175 points 1 day ago

MJ conserved energy like LeBron does, but he was still a consistently excellent defender when you look over the whole season. Also LeBron hasn't always guarded the opponent's best player either so not sure why that's even a factor

活塞球迷：乔丹确切和勒布朗一样在蓄力，可是看他一全部赛季他仍然是一个不变的完善戍守者，勒布朗也不消防敌手最好的球员啊，所以我不肯定这是否是一个影响身分。

[–]ouyinwei 226 points 1 day ago

Am not expecting Lebron to play elite defense. B4 that he should at least play some defense.

我不等候勒布朗能打出精英级此外戍守了，可是他最少能打出点戍守来吧。

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[–][GSW] Klay ThompsonMrVanillaIceTCube 567 points 1 day ago

I’ve seen a lot of comments/posts lately criticizing Lebron lately claiming that Kobe and MJ literally never ever took a defensive possession off.

That's a strawman. People criticize Kobe's All-Defense selections in his 30s all the time.

They definitely took plays off, but they didn't stand around on defense except for a few plays the entire game. It's degrees. They weren't perfect but they were better than LeBron on that end.

you’re not going to be able to play elite defense every single possession.

Also a strawman. No one is asking LeBron to be a lockdown defender every play, most people have realistic expectations for a 34 year old 16 year vet. But if you literally stand around doing the Harden statue impression, you're gonna get shit for it. Especially as the best player in the world and someone chasing GOATdom.

“我看过良多评论求全谴责勒布朗，说科比和乔丹没抛却过一个戍守回合。”

杠——这不合错误啊，人们在科比三十岁今后一向在质疑他的一防身份。

他们必定在戍守端有些放松，可是他们不会整场都严酷戍守，除非有某些重年夜的角逐，这一点我赞成，他们不完善可是他们在戍守端要比詹姆斯强很多吧。

你不克不及要求每一个回合都打出精英级此外戍守吧。

杠——没人要求每一个回合勒布朗都化身戍守年夜闸，人们对一个打了16个赛季的34岁老兵是很有实际等候的，可是假如你想昔时哈登一样木桩，你必定是会被喷的，特别你可是这个世界上最棒的篮球活动员，而且你要追逐史上最好的王座啊。

[–]ThunderBanichi-aiji 163 points 1 day ago

To me the problem isn't taking plays off on defense, its blaming other guys for it. Feels like LeBron isn't a good leader for this young core, but hes too big a presence for anyone else to step up as a leader.

雷霆球迷：对我而言问题不在在他不戍守，而是他指责其他人不戍守，感受勒布朗在年青球员眼前不是一个好的魁首，可是他确切太强以助在必然要成为一个魁首。

[–]LakersAfk94 66 points 23 hours ago

Leaving guys wide open on multiple possessions isn’t a problem?

湖人球迷：让敌手屡次在年夜空位居然不是问题？

[–]LakersAfk94 18 points 23 hours ago

Kobe was guarding the point the season he tore his Achilles. He really wasn’t taking that many plays off.

湖人球迷：在他扯破跟腱的阿谁赛季现实上仍是当真戍守的，他没有放失落良多回合。

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[–]Bullssuper_sayanything 94 points 1 day ago

I guess, but Michael was barely losing. If he was losing, he was pissed off. If he was pissed off, he was playing D.

我猜乔丹当真戍守都是输球的时辰，假如他输球，他就会脸黑，假如他脸黑了，他就最先戍守了。

[–][LAL] Kobe Bryantfrodounchained 190 points 1 day ago

Everyone takes possessions off nobody thinks kobe and mj went hard every possession but they did put the effort in when needed.

湖人球迷：没有人感觉科比和乔丹每一个回合都防得很当真，可是他们会在需要的时辰尽力戍守啊。

[–]AllureFX 64 points 1 day ago*

This is true about Kobe but not MJ. You're equating the 2 but Jordan had a ridiculous motor. He wasn't going 1000% every possession in the RS but he didn't take plays completely off like every other wing did in that age

I doubt you even watched MJ. In 98 Pippen missed over 400% of the season to start the season and they went 25-10 with MJ and had the #4 defensive rating in those games (only behind Spurs, Knicks and Cavs) and MJs individual defensive rating was 99 in those games (also averaging 2 steals and nearly a block) which was stronger than the teams average by 3.7pts.

And this was MJ at the same age Lebron is now. No one was criticizing MJs deserved all defense selections like they did with Kobe

Comparatively the Lakers defense has gone to complete shit after Lebron returned and Lonzo got injured. I believe they've been bottom 5 in defense for a while now which would be on the level of teams literally tanking lmfao

科比确切如斯，可是乔丹可不是如许的，你可以把勒布朗和科比同等，可是乔丹是另外一个荒诞乖张的存在。他可能不会每一个回合都倾尽全力，可是他不会像本身阿谁年数的锋线一样完全放空一小我。

我猜你们都没怎样看过乔丹打球，98赛季皮蓬缺了400%的角逐而他们获得了25胜10负，他们在乔丹的率领下获得了同盟第四的戍守效力(仅次在马刺、尼克斯和骑士)，乔丹的单人戍守效力是99(场均2个抢断和接近1个盖帽)，这要比球队的平均值还低3.7分。

阿谁时辰的乔丹和勒布朗一样年夜哦，没人像质疑科比一样质疑乔丹的最好戍守声势。

在勒布朗回归，鲍尔受伤以后湖人的戍守和屎一样，我相信戍守倒数第五的球队现实上应当摆烂了。

来历：Reddit

编译：海上生明月